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Postby JB » Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:20 pm

No drama's mate

You'll be the only one receiving the files dude...Keys only got a DVD cause he's a poof. If you ask any amateur/semi pro/pro photographer and you'll usually get the same response. Jonno won't allow me to post pics without a watermark etc....and I wouldn't expect to be able to use his photo's freely without consent or some cash or something, and he's family!

I've re-read this cause it's not aimed at anyone specific but it needs to be said so feel free to shoot me down.

Next time I come out to take stacks of pics for a few days I will expect something from it, even if it's just covering the batteries I end up going through. I know it's not a lot of coin and maybe some of you will think I'm being tight, but it's simply paying me back for the coin I've already outlayed - think of it this way:

Back in the day with Film, youd have to buy the film and then have it processed and a large proportion of the pics are not usable but you don't know until it's processed, with Digital it's easier to see the results straight up > so a small amount to cover batteries or whatever shouldn't be much of an issue, especially if you would like a bunch of pics to use.

I take Keys point about being a good,kind generous person etc and not expecting something from this (I've never asked or even really wanted/needed it before) however :

The thing that has annoyed me in the past and present with this is that I've heard certain comments from ppl about 'committment' and questions raised about my 'status/committment' within Cunningstunts (some of this dates back a while, some not) and also things like someone saying 'if I am not earning cash or having fun from it I can't be farked with it at all' so when I hear those sorta comments I feel justified in either:

a) not doing a damn thing for anyone and concentrate on my work, family and my own interests
b) or asking for some payback for time/effort/consumables I put into it, cause I don't stunt anymore and don't enjoy the 'stunt' scene as much as some of you boys do but I have ALWAYS put in the effort to come take pics, help with bikes etc etc.

A small amount of appreciation/gratitude goes along way. I also realise some of this stuff may just be said in jest which wouldn't bother me so much if the same ppl bothered to have a proper conversation with me or at least have a listen to what I'm saying before saying something that is rude. Also, a bit of respect (aight ) wouldn't go astray. I've had a huge part in Cunningstunts from day 1 - so when I offer an opinion about riding then despite the fact I may or may not be able to actually do what we're talking about, does not mean I can't understand the concept - at the end of the day, I'm only EVER going to chip in with my opinion about lets say for examply - circles - if I think it would help you guys. I'm not trying to be an 'INTERNET STUNTER' or offer 'expert' advice - just trying to give you guys a 3rd eye and some perspective....(it reminds me of the first time I offered advice to Keyworth......do you remember? I do, I got the response on film! hehehehe) - Sometimes having someone on the deck to tell you how high or low or whatever really helps.

just ignore me banging on anyhow. not having a good year so far. Xmas was shite as was NYE, ppl at work sh1t me to tears so yeh - feelin a bit used and abused at times!
one day i will think of something smart to put here
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Postby j-rad » Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:44 pm

Dunno why ya put it in here but again - just trying to explain where I'm coming from.
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Postby JB » Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:52 pm

WITHOUT anything being taken the wrong way and stupid internet fights start, please understand i'm simply giving my opinion as you have yours.

from the day i met you Jarrad, i have found that you are not the easiest person to get along with, but i persist and try to talk with you when i see you and get the impression you couldnt give a f*** really. if thats the case, no skin of my nose dude, i'll just keep doin what i love which is stunting. if i am wrong then i appologise, but thats the impression that i have gotten from day 1.

as for goin out of your way with YOUR time and money to take pics of us all while stunting. yes i understand that this can cost, not much but something and it can add up. i appologise if you dont feel appreciated and respected because i had no intentions of giving that sort of vibe to you if i have. in saying this though, Daniel travells all over oz filming EVERYONE in the sun ALL day for days on end and then spends hours and hours goin through god knows how many tapes, batching footage e.t.c. he askes for bugger all in return and puts up clips on public forums for everyone to see. might take him a while at times, but he gets it done and has alot on.

understand that YOU coming out to take pics of us (your "team" mates) is YOUR choice. know one has twisted your arm and told you, you have to come out to take pics. YES we do appreciate it and i appologise if you havent felt that way from me. for e.g: if there was an event on local to me or even in another state and i was able to get there and had my "team" mates riding. i would be there with bells on and be more than happy to take pics or vid of them if one of them had a camera for me to use. i wouldnt then turn around and tell them, pay up or you dont get it. would just be happy to see my team mates ride if i couldnt for whatever reason.
if you came out to stuntskills and took HEAPS of pics of EVERYONE riding that day and got some quality shots of some random ppl riding there. i think you would be stupid to just make a cd for them and send it to them free of charge.

do you have a registered buisness for your photography? if so, then do what deenopix does. so if somebody tries to use your pic of them, it has your name across or whatever it is he does.

IMHO i think that whenever i see you, you seem to make all the time in the world for Bender (wich is fine as he is a very good friend) but couldnt give 2 fucks bout the rest of us. i'm sure i'm not the the only one that feels this way, so dont take this too personally dude.

as i said, i am NOT trying to start a internet fight blah blah blah, just simply giving my 2cents. i applogise again if i have pissed you off. feel free to reply and give your thoughts as no dount i have probably contradicted myself in there somewere :lol:
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Postby j-rad » Fri Jan 04, 2008 4:47 pm

Like I said, it was not directed at any one specific - just a feeling I"VE HAD SINCE DAY 1 MEETING ALL YOU GUYS! Corey was the main offender, but some of the comments I've heard from the last 4 years(since I stopped riding and all the new ppl came about) are just plain rude.

So because of this, I just generally keep my mouth shut to avoid this sorta situ which is maybe where you get your impression from - I hardly think this makes me 'not the easiest person to get along with'. But then you're all happy whilst there's footage of yourselves you want to look at.

Daniel may well do all of what you are saying, I've done most of those things and all you can think about is - but then I've stood out there with camera's aswell and edited footage - but look out if I ask for 1 measly free DVD or a reasonable, polite response to what I've said at the time! Again, if that's the attitude shown to me, why should I help? I have proven myself to be a helpful generous person and this is the first time you've said you've had a problem with me - even though you've thought this way 'since first meeting me' > don't you think if you have this problem with me that I'm going to pick up on this by the way you treat me? It's hardly going to make me want to make the effort (and more imprtantly others - cause this was not actually directed at you or any specific)

You're right - NO one has twisted my arm to come out and take pics - but then as soon as I offer an opinion on a riding technique or even just a general conversaion topic I get all sorts of comments - a few from Ned in particular which annoyed me to no end. Maybe I do make the time for Bender and that's because he's never shot me down when I've offered an opinon on his riding or any other time really (except for that very first time bendy)

I feel like I can't even open my mouth around you lot most of the time because of the snide, sarcastic 'jokes' I get back - now again, if you'd all bother to have a proper conversation with me I'd let it past and even laugh along, but from day 1 when all the Syd boys joined Cunningstunts (000 included) I've had nothing that comes close to that so have been on the back foot ever since and not really sure how to take any of the Syd lads which is a shame.
If Bender gave me the sorta attitude I've been feeling from the others I would've told him to jam it - to his face, straight up. The only reason I've left it this long to put my feelings down is other shit in life which is causing issues and the fact I KEEP putting in the effort and even try to start conversations with you all only to be completly ignored - from day 1.

Look, to tell you the truth, my orig post probably went on a bit, didn't mean to, I just kept trying to explain myself and ended up with an essay. that being said, I stand by it and if you really do have such a big problem with me for so long (and as you say, apparently you're not the only one that thinks this) I don't see the point in trying to help any of you out with anything cause no matter how much I help and no matter how many pics I take, it's not going to change your mind and until I speak up no one is man enough to come up and say it to me within the last 4 years!
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Postby JB » Fri Jan 04, 2008 5:28 pm

most of us live up this way and Bender is the only rider down your way. Bender comes to pretty much every event on no matter where it is. since your not stunting anymore, you have no reason to come to them all. thats cool coz if i were in your shoes i prolly wouldnt either. that being said, us sydney boys dont see a great deal of you wich is prolly why nothing has been brought up for so long. i joined cunningstunts AFTER 000 left and i thought that my skills were good enough that i could bring something to the team. so things from the begining i'm not to sure bout. i do know that a few of you had clashes with Corey, but thats all in the past now. its only days into the new yr, so perhaps we could all try and make this yr bigger and better.

i'm not goin to go up to my good mates best friend and tell him my probs. sometimes ppl dont get along for whatever reason. this is life dude. there are PLENTY of absaloute fkn WANKERS at my work. so i have to see them and deal with them 5 days a week. cant really help that, so i just do what i can and if that means only associating if absaloutly necsasary, then so be it. we may have different thoughts or whatever. opinions are what makes us different. anyway, this is all getting too full on and its only a few posts in. we will be seeing more of eachother regardless dude, so may as well keep things at least how they were eh. at least we have gotten some BS off our chests.

all i want right now is to finish my bike so i can start riding my own bike again.
one day i will think of something smart to put here
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Postby j-rad » Fri Jan 04, 2008 5:31 pm

I've re-read my original post, and to be quite honest JB I don't know why you'd have such a problem with it!!!

All I asked for was a few measly double AA batteries to help me KEEP TAKING PICS of you all......is this selfish? I think not.....

Also, not once did I refer to yourself or anyone else for that matter, until you start getting personal in your response. Fair enough, you're allowed to voice your opinion but it does seem somewhat over the top considering what I've asked for and if, and the others as you say, have this low opinion of me then I don't see the point in spending days at a time coming to take pics or help or whatever with that sorta thing aimed at me.

Had I known they were your and others feelings a long time ago I wouldn't have bothered coming to any events at all.
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Postby Bender » Fri Jan 04, 2008 5:41 pm

Holey crap that was alot of reading... :shock:

Team forum is definatly the place to have this discussion vs the general chat area, saves face with the public.

Its easy to get off on the wrong foot and also in life people are not all looking at the same page the same way so to speak.

Honestly, I think this is a bad case of miss understandings across the board, really we all love stunting and for most part of it in our own way. There shouldn't be any hard feelings from whats written above as all that has been said is just "feelings"...

I did see and hear what both of you have mentioned but I take it differently the same as you guys obviously have, I can see where JB is comming from and I can see where Jarrad is comming from. Neither of you are a wrong but more of a miss communication and there is not anger there either maybe frustration is a good word to describe this.

Perhaps we as a team can accept that we are individuals and continue to get along, We all know where we stand and what the prolem was all we need to do now work on it... :D
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Postby j-rad » Fri Jan 04, 2008 6:13 pm

Sure,
funny though how everything was all 'good' whilst I kept my trap shut and provided whatever has been asked for by anyone who's asked me > soon as I try and make a point about supporting each other and perhaps sorting me out for some consumables it turns ugly...just for trying to help out.

Anyhow, I can fix it easy - I won't be taking any more pics, footage etc.

JB is right, no one has forced me to help you lot out or take pics etc, however he seems to think I do it out of enjoyment of watching you ride > judging by his opinion of me I'm sure not doing it out of friendship > I've only done it because I damned well helped create this whole thing and want to see everyone involved succeed whether I'm riding or not which I thought was a selfless act > which is why I take my own time and money out to do the things I have for the past 8 years. For half of that time I've not been riding so no enjoyment from it EXCEPT TO SEE YOU GUYS SUCCEED > I have always provided this stuff fast and free with no complaints but the whole time I'm doing it JB and Co haven't liked me from the start but are happy to use my pics, Daniel feels free to use the video footage etc.
Fair enough, maybe JB doesn't feel like he has to explain this to me like he advises in his post, but it sure is 2 faced!

I'm sure Jonno will continue to provide excellent images for Cunningstunts should he decide to continue and if not I'm sure you can still grab all the stills you need from video footage. This seems likely to solve the problem as I just can't afford to keep spending cash when I'm supporting a family/mortage etc on a single income and if I can't ask the riders here for a small contribution without having started this whole BS thread and causing stress then I'm not helping anyone.
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Postby mike_rock » Fri Jan 04, 2008 7:07 pm

No offense J-Rad, but if AA batteries are all your after, why not ask before hand. If your happy just going to take pics of your mate, just say so, dont start pulling some bullshit about not feeling comfortable speaking your mind and being shot down.

We might all be in a team, but not all of us spend a great deal of time with everyone else and we are all entitled to our own opinions. Everyone on here expresses their opinions and you can do it too just the same, but doesnt mean anyone else has to agree or follow your or anyone elses opinion.

This is a stupid arguement and if your not in a position to help out, just say so...
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